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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/17/06 12:01:45 AM Age 41, WI
I just watched half of the movie called "Missionary Positions". I feel violated and am sorry I watched as much as I did. I wish I would have been wise enough to stop watching as soon as the first vulgar image appeared.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/15/06 04:44:17 PM Age 25, CO
This article was to me a bit vague- What precisely is objectionable about xxxchurch and this ministry? I got more concise info about this from the feedback than from the actual article.
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  1. Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
    Posted On: 11/17/06 06:43:37 AMAge 51, NH
    This is not really directed at you personally but since you stated again what so many others have here, I'll say this again. The intent of this was to simply present the facts about how this foolish "Porn Sunday" started. I talk about this in my new article here at CWN here: workhttp://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?ArticleID=1275 At the same time how sad is it that someone has to lead someone else on how to perceive an issue today because critical thinking skills are so low. This is how cults actually start. If anyone had made the time to go to the numerous links within the article they would have all the facts necessary to make their own minds up as to this for XXXchurch/Rob Bell excuse to be around porn stars. And yet, you would rather have me tell you what you should believe about this? Sad.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
      Posted On: 11/20/06 07:19:15 PMAge 25, CO
      I don't the difficulty with understanding this particular article comes from a lack of "critical thinking skills", especially since other readers exhibited the same confusion as myself. The facts about xxxchurch and porn sunday were hard to glean because I found the article difficult to follow, perhaps phrased a bit vaguely on certain points. A quick visit to the xxxchurch site itself gave clearer information on what they actually do, regardless of what one feels about the effectiveness of their method (which I myself question, now that I know what it is they are about).
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/15/06 08:42:36 AM Age 39, WI
This group uses a 25-foot inflatable penis that they display on college campuses across America. One college student was quoted that he was ashamed to be a Christian, not because of Jesus, but because of the vulgarity of these "Christians". He said the entire university was laughing about the giant phallus for days. This group has been on late night TV talking about "Wally the Wiener". I thought we were to lift high the CROSS, not male sex organs. In their attempts to be hip and relevant and cool, these people have behaved like idiots who have brought shame on the cause of Christ. Christian women are so uncomfortable, they don't want to go near their booths at these universities. When the church becomes a stench in the nostrils of the world, it's time to pull the plug!!! Thanks for this article.
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  1. Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
    Posted On: 11/17/06 01:38:59 PMAge 28, TX
    IF that's true, it certainly is not appropriate besides being in poor taste. But then, I've seen things on this website that I would be just as ashamed of. However, that doesn't mean this site doesn't do good, nor does it mean that XXX Church isn't good for some of the churched/nonchurched community.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/15/06 08:15:36 AM Age 51, NM
To finish my comment: As for the person who criticized being like-minded; 1 Cor 10: 10I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 1 Timothy 6: Teach and urge these things. 3If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, 4he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, 5and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. It is apparent that false doctrine causes division. This passage from 1 Timothy speaks about the emerging fallacy, not about Ken Silva BTW, gain is not just monetary gain. There are those who seek notoriety by pushing the envelope. And putting on a carnival that masquerades as worship Get a clue. God draws men through His son and He saves all whom he draws. Not all will be saved. We do not save. The reformation and revival of today is one of hyper-arminianism and pelagianism. Acts 20: 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. Matthew 7: 15"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' 24"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it." Of course these verses are always speaking about that elusive other guy out there somewhere. No, These are the ones who sincerely believe that they are doing the work.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/15/06 08:14:17 AM Age 51, NM
This is amazing. The defenders of this type of "evangelization" (not) are amazing. Where did Jesus say put the sins on exhibition so that we would know they are wrong? God gave the Law, according to Paul, to make sin exceedingly sinful. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would convict the world because of righteousness, sin and judgment. John 16: 7-11 and Romans 7:.7-13 Get a clue folks. A sovereign God saves. He did not leave it up to us, or our therapies, or our circus show services. Do we need proof that this is sin? The fact that men keep it secret, and the whole marketing approach of the pron industry, e.g "plain brown wrappers", tell us that even the unregenerate knows this is not good;they just insist on their rights to do it. Back to the garden people. Why don't we bring in live demonstrations so the we can be sure that the congregants know that it is wrong. While we are at it we can drag in some drug dealers and addicts, or some pedophiles and they can show their trade also. Those who attend these churches and their services go for the same reason men view porn; it excites. They are as guilty as those they are claiming to cure. This is a show and it's put on by men trying to push the envelope. I don't care if Bell begins every sermon with "let's open our Bibles" He doesn't know what's in it. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10: 17 Paul is talking about the faith that leads to salvation. No man is saved by watching a display of sins. Jesus did not institute therapeutic methods.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/15/06 04:20:43 AM Age 44, UK
Like other church leaders, I am acutely aware of the massive problem which pornography presents to Christian men in todays church. We need to thank God for raising up a ministry like XXXChurch and pray regularly for those involved with it. I personally found this article to be selective, sarcastic and sanctimonious. Any fool can criticise and most fools do. This piece of work, Mr Silva, did not do you justice.
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Re: Rob Bell?s Porn Sunday ?Mission?
Posted On: 11/14/06 11:58:16 PM Age 49, VA
Some observations: The article is very critical of Rob Bell's church, and assumes everyone else "knows" he is leading some sort of cult, yet presents no evidence to support this claim. Disagreements about methodology should be done in a constructive, humble way. The tone of the article is so critical of a particular event yet does not demonstrate this attitude of humility. I thought World View Weekend had adopted a new policy on posting lead articles that were destructive toward other Christian ministries? If Mr. Bell is not leading a true Christian ministry, then why are we even concerned about what is preached on a particular Sunday? If he is a wolf in sheep's clothing, let us know what major doctrine(s) of the Christian faith he openly rejects, so we can all be aware of this and not be led into his deception. Pornography is such a major issue within our society, and yes, is a huge problem within our Christian churches. It has been ignored for years by many churches, because it is much easier to preach against the outward sins, which are things we are often not guilty of. Christ dealt with heart issues, and often did things that were contrary to conventional thinking. He dealt lovingly with the woman at the well, and was accused of being "a glutton and winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners" (Lk. 7:34) Unlike the Pharisees, He was willing to associate with people from sinful backgrounds, because they were often the very ones who realized the extent of their lostness and need of a saviour. And yes, Jesus had thousands of people trying to follow him to hear what he had to say. I may not like a person's methodology, but if they are preaching the truth, I have no right to try to take God's place of judgement. Isaiah walked naked and barefoot for 3 years. Hosea was commanded to take a wife who had been a harlot. These did not follow traditional methods for men of God, so should we spend our time writing articles against them? The answer is obvious. God has used many different methods over the years, and we cannot place Him within a little box that makes us feel comfortable. In the end, I will be held in account for my own words, thoughts, and attitudes, and what I have done with Christ. Part of my service for Him needs to be reaching the real needs of people around me.
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  1. You need to do some homework...
    Posted On: 01/16/09 12:14:50 PMAge 53, AZ
    I would like to urge you to look up more of what Mr. Bell teaches before you start to defend this guy. Look up what he believes on the virgin birth, heaven & hell, the origin of the Bible... to name a few, then write back about what you think of this Christian man and his work.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/14/06 08:58:22 PM Age 59, KS
This is a very enlightening article. I saw this xxxchurch.com site advertised on a youth pastors webpage and thought it surely wasn't really xxx, but from the information provided in this article, I was right to doubt what it was really doing. I am sad to think so many church pastors and people are being tricked into thinking this is even close to an evangelism tool. I certainly don't watch that type of stuff today at home and never want to ever see it in my church. May God bless those who wish to tell the truth about these type of things going on in our churches. God is truth. AMEN
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  1. Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
    Posted On: 11/15/06 02:06:22 PMAge 35, MD
    Don't feel too enlightened yet, because, as many others have noted, Ken's article did not really present any solid argument. I suggest you check out xxxchurch.com for yourself and see what it is really about. Then we could all have a rational discussion about what we think.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/14/06 08:38:16 PM Age 41, NM
A Few Thoughts: 1) I once thought Rob Bell had some wothrwhile stuff. I bought several of his Nooma videos. Then I watched them. No repentence. No turning from sin. Just the same soft-pedal gospel that makes people feel good about themselves the way they are and gives them a false sense of eternal security, which prabably makes them more damned. 2) This "Porn-Sunday" stuff is so over the top, I can hardly believe it. I don't understand how we can take a "worship Sevice" in which we ought to "lift up Jesus" and instead focus on porn. It seems these men from xxxchurch find there identity in their past activity rather than in Jesus. Maybe I'm wrong. 3) I once tried to read the book entitled "Every Man's Battle". I couldn't finish it. The stories and accounts were so vivid that rather helping me become pure, my mind was filled with sexual images, thoughts and imaginations. I had to repent, get rid of the book, and get back to God's idea...Whatever is pure, lovely, noble, and of good report...think on these things. God's way works. Man's way doesn't.
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Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
Posted On: 11/14/06 04:53:57 PM Age 33, IL
Ken, I think it is imperative that you respond to the numerous requests here to identify your actual, Biblical concerns with Rob Bell, Mars Hill, and XXXchurch. From the first word, your bias is established, yet you present no lucid arguments in support. Also, even if you disagree with the methodology of these pastors--or even their theology--is there not a middle ground between blind allegiance and damning judgment? What I mean to suggest is: instead of attempting to discard these pastors as heretics, could you not consider them brothers in the faith, and offer compassionate, critical feedback which could sharpen their thinking and their ministry? If you are truly concerned about their ministry, I believe it is your Biblical mandate to do so.
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  1. Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
    Posted On: 11/15/06 06:47:51 AMAge 51, NH
    "Ken, I think it is imperative that you respond to the numerous requests here to identify your actual, Biblical concerns with Rob Bell,...you present no lucid arguments in support." I have an entire archive of writings on Rob Bell: http://www.apprising.org/archives/rob_bell/index.html "What I mean to suggest is: instead of attempting to discard these pastors as heretics, could you not consider them brothers in the faith, and offer compassionate, critical feedback which could sharpen their thinking and their ministry?" There are tons of "apologists" attempting to do just that but they'll learn just as I did over this past year that the "conversation" is one-sided. "If you are truly concerned about their ministry, I believe it is your Biblical mandate to do so." Meaning no disrespect but I am a pastor-teacher and my "Biblical mandate" is do and write whatever my Master tells me to. And so I do, but I'm hard-pressed to see John the Baptist's exegetical commentaries from Scripture concerning those to whom God the Holy Spirit moved him to call "brood of vipers." Look up at the red sky this morning and recognize the time in which you live.
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
      Posted On: 11/21/06 06:04:42 PMAge 54, PA
      I was also taken back by Ken's attack on the Mars Hill Bible Church and its pastor. I actually viewed the video "Missionary Positions," rather than take the word of others. And, though I could not do what the men of the xxxchurch do, and agree some tactics are in poor taste and inappropriate, I am grateful for their attempts to attack a serious problem head on, and am thankful Pastor Bell was willing to try to get the message into his community. For the life of me, I cannot understand how Ken can conclude that the motive of this ministry's leaders is to get close to porn stars. It is patently unbiblical to assume other's motives. Christ could discern motives, but I don't believe Ken has the right to do so. As for Ken's response to criticism, I can only hope those he criticizes show more grace than he does to his critics. And while I will take his word for the fact that he believes his "master" tells him to say what he does (and, I suppose, how to say it), I cannot recognize the humility of Christ in his writings (or any humility for that matter). As a result, I must express doubt that the master he refers to is Christ. My sincere hope and prayer is that God will deliver Ken from the fall that so often follows such pride, and the messengers of the xxxchurch from falling into a trap through their closeness to such filth. Jesus was able to remain humble despite having all authority and knowledge, and was able to stay pure while being a friend of sinners, so I know my prayer can be answered for both Ken and those he criticizes through the power of the indwelling Spirit.
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    2. Re: Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
      Posted On: 11/17/06 10:51:50 AMAge 33, IL
      You mean this passage, Ken? "You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." The identifying characteristic of those Jesus called a "brood of vipers" was the judgmental legalism of the Pharisees. Sorry, but I just can't apply that to Rob Bell. However, I repeatedly observe that spirit in the writings on this website. Rob Bell (and many others) are doing their best to extend the truth and grace of Christ. I don't know your heart, Ken, but based on this article, you seem unwilling to offer the latter, at least to anyone you deem "emergent". And until you are willing to offer that grace, I'm afraid your words will fall primarily on deaf ears.
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
        Posted On: 11/21/06 10:20:31 AMAge 51, NH
        No IL, sorry. Nice try though. If you had waited a bit longer in your eagerness to take your shot at me and to prove your supposedly superior erudition in the Scriptures then you could have saved yourself the egg now on your face. Note that I was quoting John the Baptist. Then you say: "I'm afraid your words will fall primarily on deaf ears." How my words are accepted are up to Him Who sent me, or have you not read Is. 6:8-10 and Ezekiel 3:7-14? peace.
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      2. Re: Re: Re: Re: Rob Bells Porn Sunday Mission
        Posted On: 11/18/06 05:28:41 PMAge 43, AB
        Just in case anyone is interested - NAV/PRESS (under the "TH1NK" imprint) has just released Matthew Paul Turner's book, ""What You Didn't Learn From Your Parents About Sex". This book contains filth, that rivals Bell, xxx-church, et. al. It was just pulled from some of the Christian bookstores, here in Calgary. I am waging a battle against NAV/PRESS over this book. If you want details, contact me at james_parker@shaw.ca
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