Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/09/06 04:52:07 PM |
Age 63, OR |
The problem within Christendom is that "man" has self-servingly fragmented the true Church of Jesus Christ through sectarian thought and teaching. The selfish "we are better than they" syndrom is sin. Years ago I rushed out of a huge Baptist mega-church when the sunday school teacher and others in the study group began badmouthing other denominations. I found the same in: Assembly of God, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopal, Catholic, and non-denominational fellowships.
ALL have fallen short! It is so disgusting an apostate in action that I no longer call myself an evangelical. Now, I am a "Christian" and if you want to start name calling believers by their denominational weaknesses because it is different that your own, then I shake the dust from my feet of you.
The worst I found in this sin are the "calvinists".
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/09/06 12:54:38 PM |
Age 63, OH |
ALL THE CHURCHES I HAVE BEEN IN OR HEARD
FROM SEEM TO BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.It was through what his son did that God cleared a path for everyone to come to him -- all things in heaven and on earth -- for Christ death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. This includes us who once
were so far away from God. We were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by our evil thoughts and actions, yet
now he has brought us back as his friends.
He has done this through the death on the cross of his own human body, and now as a result Christ has brought us into the very
presence of God, and we are standing there
before him with NOTHING LEFT AGAINST US --
NOTHING LEFT THAT HE WOULD EVEN SCOLD US
FOR, the ONLY condition is that we fully
believe the truth, standing in it steadfast
and firm, strong in the Lord, convinced of the good news that Jesus died for us, and never shifting from TRUSTING HIM TO SAVE US.
The Lord Jesus has nothing against anyone
covered by his blood. In "The Revelation"
Jesus sends a letter to all the churches.
( seven being the number of completeness )
Yet there are only two churches that Jesus
has nothing against; the poor afflicted
church in Smyrna, and the weak church in
Philadelphia. I have been looking for a
church that is afflicted and professes to
be poor and weak but I have been unable
to find one or even hear of one in this
nation at this time. Jesus warns the other
five chuches to repent. I don't see this
happening anywhere. Leaders should lead
by example and seek the Lord for his gift
of repentence. If they don't see why they
should repent ask the Lord he is willing and able to show them. Have we brought salvation
to this land. Surely we could all START TO
REPENT for that failure alone. SEEK THE LORD
JESUS WHILE THERE IS STILL TIME for the time
is short and judgement is coming. We will
not all sleep,but we will all be changed --
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, AT
THE LAST TRUMPET.(1 Corinthians 15:51&52)
I know what LAST means, there is no other
trumpet to be sounded in this age. That means it is the seventh trumpet in The
Revelation (10:7). Read about the events
that precede that 7th trumpet. None of us
have any hope save for the Lord Jesus.
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 01:27:23 PM |
Age 51, WI |
Mr. Silva, You have a rotten attitude. Has it taken you so long to come to your conclusions? Don't you yet realize there are "good and evil" seeds in every Christian denomination and stream...including yours. There is little merit in the terms "evangelical" or "charismatic" other than trying to identify a Christian stream of thought. I think in your assessment you should consider your own pride and "rightness" even though I am thankful you wrote what you did. NOBODY including you have hit the issues concerning Haggard's fall. Gal. 6:1. So long. Dr. Timothy L. Warner
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- Re: Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/09/06 03:12:19 PM | | Age 51, NH |
O my, "Dr." Warner. You said: "Mr. Silva, You have a rotten attitude." I postulate that you're being a just bit judgmental here, aren't you? How do you even know what my "attitude" even is? Then you say: "Don't you yet realize there are 'good and evil' seeds in every Christian denomination and stream...including yours." I never said I didn't realize this, in fact I personally would consider that info a matter of common sense. But then, and you do make this too easy, you turn right around and contradict yourself as you pontificate: "I think in your assessment you should consider your own pride and 'rightness'..." So, am I now to consider "in your assessement" of my article that you are in fact proud because you personally seem quite sure of your own "rightness" Dr. Warner? And finally you stick your other foot in your mouth as you say: "NOBODY including you have hit the issues concerning Haggard's fall. Gal. 6:1." Sorry, but you're wrong again, I show why there are other verses Ted Haggard must live up to BEFORE we even can get to Gal. 6:1 in "The Bible and Ted Haggard" elsewhere on this site and here: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/the_bible_and_t_2.html Mr. Ken Silva
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- Re: Re: Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/22/06 04:51:01 PM | | Age 32, TX |
I though Christian men were to be loving to one another in their responses. This is what so many non-Christians have against us that are followers and proclaimers of Christ. We claim to love God, but when we have a disagreement with another...do not speak the truth IN LOVE. I agreed with your article, but the harsh way you have responded to someone who genuinely disagreed with you greatly saddens me and turns my stomach in knots. We all fall short and fail in sin, so this is not to judge you, as I have my own faults, but for the sake of our witness to others on this site who are still questioning, and seeking God and doing so through watching the writings and reactions of those that claim to follow this Jesus, you (and all of us) ought to give greater thought to responding with the Love God commands of us when dealing with our disagreements. If we speak in tongues of angels but have not love, it is for naught that we even speak. It makes it such that what we said that may have been important is not even remembered because it is clouded in a lack of love which speaks much louder.
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 10:49:52 AM |
Age 43, CA |
Dear Ken:
I too sounded an alarm with an article I wrote called "First They Caved To Evolution, Now On Global Warming" months ago (http//:ministerwhereyouare.org). Many say they believe the Bible, and even that Jesus Christ is their Savior and Lord; yet Jesus said "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not what I say?" Luke 6:46.
All too often people know just what to say, and on the surface have "a form of godliness". The trouble is they deny the power. This is not like a denial of person who says that God doesn't exist; no, this is a person who says "Jesus is Lord", but theirs prove that they really do not believe Jesus can deliver them from the bondage of sin. They accept Jesus on their terms, but not on His. They want every bit of the grace that forgives sin, as long as they can continue in them. They take plain and clear verses like Hebrews 10:26-29 and rather than accept them, and fear the Lord enough to depart from sin; they become idolators, worshipping self more than God.
Unlike David who delighted in the law of God and dwelled upon it; and unlike those believers that find the law no more grievous (1 John 5:3): they seem more likely to study the Bible looking for loopholes to appease their conscience.
"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which (ppt-continue to) commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that (ppt-continue)do them." Romans 1:32
When one looses the fear of the Lord, leaves their first love; and has believed certain verses that have them convinced that God can't see their sins anyway; the warnings of God are not heeded. One cannot read the OT and come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible is just kidding around when it comes to sin. If men are not taught to be careful not to shipwreck their faith, they won't worry about the rocky shore (1 Tim. 1:19-20). Paul loved Timothy and us enough to warn us to avoid being shipwrecked. Sadly, way too many today are more interested in being liked by men (including those within the church) and too worried about being called a heretic, to even warm Christians not to fall away. Thank God Peter wasn't too scared to write 2 Peter 1:3-10. Thank God he wasn't so scared to be labeled a heretic that he actually told us to "add to our faith".
What was # 1 on that list? Virtue!!!!!! I just finished the first of a series called "The Add To Your Faith Series" also on the web site about and learned that virtue is like a "desire for holiness and godliness". Like a young boy hates baths, because it is against his nature. Living godly and holy is aginst our flesh nature. Adding virtue (in much prayer and seeking the Lord) helps one to be prepared to keep the flesh in submission (1 Cor.9:27) so one does not ever become reprobate; and in conjunction with the remaining things we are to add, make our call and election sure, so we never fall (Strongs 4417 - fail of salvation).
Jack Jackson - Minister Where You Are
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 10:34:04 AM |
Age 40, TX |
It is for this very reason I do not put a lot of faith in Barna Research as it is applied to Christians. Their polling question to define a Christian gives me no confidence that those people are in fact Christian and/or evangelical Christian. While many may be, are they Christ following believers? The example I think best supports this is on divorce. Barna will say that the divorce rate among Christians is the same as the rest of America, at 50%. I agree that it might be 50% among those who call themselves Christian, but in no way is the divorce rate 50% in my church. Are there divorces, sure. But in the 12 years and the hundreds of couples I know that are Christians who attend church regularly and are on some road of spiritual maturing, I only know of 3 that have gotten divorced. A Christian is someone who has placed faith in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sin and the resultant effect of their salvation is a new life directed toward spiritually maturing. People can make all of the statements they want about their label, but their actions speak louder than words. Press On, Darren. Now 40 in Texas.
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 10:30:41 AM |
Age 53, NC |
I have met Ted Haggard when he spoke at a conference. I respect many of the things he tried to do and am sad for sin into which he fell.
I do believe that when you speak of Ted, Brian McLauren and the emerging church you are not talking about the same thing.
In the case of Ted's definition of an evangelical, the words were fine, but I believe you focused on his acknowledgement of Bill Clinton as an evangelical. Actually it maybe true even if you think his personal life indicates he may not be true to it. There is a difference between someone who believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that the Bible is the Word of God, and that you must be born again.
It would have been better to point to Jimmy Carter who personal life has been exemplary and who personal faith should not be in doubt. It was outrageous what some said about him leading up to the 1980 election. All this was done because of a disagreement in politics including some who seem to think that anyone who wants more government assistance to be tantamount to the incarnation of Karl Marx, Lenin and the demonic.
Brian McLauren is a different matter. As for the emerging church, it ranges from those who want to find a different vocabulary perhaps to those who are truly questioning foundational truths. I think you are mixing too much together.
Ray
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- Re: Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 01:55:55 PM | | Age 43, NC |
Hunngh???
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 09:00:55 AM |
Age 56, FL |
I wholeheartedly concur with Ken Silva's analysis of the sickness evident in present-day "Evangelicalism" (howsomever that is defined). It gives me no pleasure to say it, but when a movement's leader (Ted Haggard)acts contrary to all that The Evangel Incarnate (our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ) stands for, it is a sure indication of a systemic infection that needs to be aggresively dealt with so that what is still healthy does not die. As Jesus said to the Chruch in Sardis in Rev. 3:1b-3, "I know your works, that you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up, and keep the things that remain, which you were about to throw away, for I have found no works of yours perfected before my God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If therefore you won't watch, I will come as a thief, and you won't know what hour I will come upon you." May we all hear our Lord's call to "wake up" before its too late!
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 08:43:24 AM |
Age 71, KS |
My heart aches for Ted Haggard and for the Church, the Body of Christ. When I first heard the news and was praying for the situation, God reminded me of David, who was a man after 'His own heart'. He was a leader and also fell and yet God didn't withdraw His love from David. I agree there is a lot wrong in today's church,& maybe God will use this to bring repentance and healing. I pray so. But I do take exception to the criticism of Benny Hinn and the Word of Faith leaders. I have heard Hank Hanegraff say some pretty 'off the wall' things on things on the radio. Didn't Jesus say, "If they are not against us, they are for us?" I believe the so called 'Word of Faith ' movement has added much to the church. Lets pray that God will move through all of us.
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- Re: Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 01:52:01 PM | | Age 42, NC |
No, Jesus actually said,"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men Matthew 12:30-31. That is a far cry from "If they are not against us, they are for us?" The subject is Jesus Christ, not us. It is also an entirely different thing to say, "he that is not against me is for me: versus, he that is not with me is against me." The first says, "so long as you are not actively against me then you must be for me." The second says, "if you are not actively for me, then you are against me." Big Difference! One cannot serve God and mammon: "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." As to the Word of Faith Movement, why are they not going through the hospitals healing the sick? Jesus did not have a place to rest his head but that old fox Benny has multi-million $$$ dollar palaces to rest his head and untold million$ to provide for his every want. Take away his mammon and see who he really is.
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 08:19:10 AM |
Age 58, TX |
Your article was an excellent piece on the Church in America's present condition. I agree with Dr. Martin's assessment - and yours. Prayer to Jesus Christ and serious Bible study - accompanied by peaceful action and witnessing is our only hope.
Keep up the (GOoD) work!
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Re: Wake-up Call From Ted Haggard
| Posted On: 11/08/06 07:33:11 AM |
Age 61, CO |
Anyone can kick someone who is down and feel triumphant. Ted Haggard's moral failure is a cause to humbly grieve and seek restoration, not a reason to gloat. Judgment starts with the house of God and none of us is exempt. Gal 6:1 warns us about a haughty attitude in correction.
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