Reread the wording in the previous paragraph
| Posted On: 03/10/09 06:39:50 PM |
Age 27, MO |
Just reading what you wrote there and never having heard the sermon of which you spoke I see some huge elements of post modernism shining through. I don't know where Bell Stands on Post Modernism, but certainly the emergent church of whom he has become associated (though he never has accepted a "label") condones it. Key things to watch for in a post modernist is "to us" "for us" These statements insinuate that for others these things may not be true. This is speaking of a void of absolute truth aka post modernism.
As to Ken's comments on Rob's sermon. I believe these were taken out of context in a very blatant way to publish an article... I'm sure it was well meaning and in many ways reflective of Rob's actual beliefs, but if you read just what Rob says you will see that he is equating breathing to being in contact and relationship with God. Which is no different then God equating eating to being spiritually fed. If the word of God is our spiritual meal, then communion with God could rightly be described as our spiritual breath. (that which when not done leads to spiritual death) The various positions as mentioned are obviously an analogy to the various situations our life can go through. Some of them difficult some of them easy, but how well each of those go is not the end goal. The end goal is simply to keep spiritually breathing. There are a variety of quotes by Bell I don't agree with... this is not one of them. He is simply making an analogy and a rather good one at that... even if he is using a Hindu religious practice to accomplish it. he is not advocating yoga in those sentences, but using them to demonstrate Christian living principles. this is because yoga is common today and would be well understood by today's generation. Similar to Jesus using workmen or things of the day to
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Doing yoga at the feet of Jesus.
| Posted On: 04/22/08 04:45:29 PM |
Age 46, IN |
I have experienced the physiological advantages of yoga. I have taken yoga classes and found them a huge advantage to dealing with stress in my life. While women around me were taking medicines prescribed by their doctors, I chose something I felt to be healthier. Once I learned the breathing/stretching/posing techniques of yoga I was amazed at how it brought about relaxation. It was a physical response by body had to the breathing/movements. If our bodies respond this way, God created this physiological reponse. WOW! God the creator of the heavens and earth created our bodies in a way that if we slow down, calm down, breath correctly, that our bodies can go through a physiological change that brings a release to the stress we hold in ourselves. I praise God that he created this mechanism within us. I only wish that it wasn't the Hindu religion that has hijacked the technique to advance their religion. The technigue of yoga is not evil, it is what you are thinking while applying the technique that is wrong. When I am practicing yoga, I imagine myself at the feet of my Lord and Savior, resting, relaxing, worhiping, adoring,laying my burdens at his feet all the while aware of my body and how beautifully he has created it to heal itself. Thank you Jesus!
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/06/06 02:47:35 PM |
Age 23, KS |
Here is a quote I found from Dr. Walter Martin in a sermon of his entitled, "Neutering the Bible." And I quote, "Jesus is no longer identified as the Son of God, but now He is the child of God."
There we have it, a quote from your beloved teacher Dr. Walter Martin. We see here from this quote that Dr. Martin must have been all about removing the masculine pronouns referring to God from the Bible. He appears to be a proponent of altering the Word of God. What a shame! What unspeakable heresy!
I am sure, Mr. Silva, that you realize what I have just done. I have just taken the words of your "own teacher" and twisted them to prove my point--which is equally as biased and ill-informed as what you do with Rob Bell's quotes. Unless you know the heart of the person you are bashing, it makes it very simple to do so.
Be careful what you say, Mr. Silva. You say Rob Bell is a supposed Christian teacher. I can say, just as easily, that Walter Martin is a supposed "Christian" teacher or that "it's too bad you learned from someone who didn't take the Word of God seriously and even wanted it altered."
Are you upset? Understandble. I said some terrible, inaccurate things. And so have you.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/04/06 12:22:53 PM |
Age 38, MO |
For those of you who are being critical of pastor Ken, I highly recommend you do a lot of homework on Rob Bell. Yoga cannot be Christianized no matter what anyone says. Go to lighthousetrailsresearch.com and read a letter from a hindu master who says that yoga is a hindu practice to get in touch with THEIR gods. He was very upset that Christians are taking their practice and slapping a Christian label on it. Every part of yoga has a meaning in the hindu belief system. Every movement, every position, etc. is a symbol they use to commune with their gods. If that is not enough for you, do you know that Rob Bell does not believe the Bible to be innerant? Do you know he doesn't believe the creation story as it is written? Do you know that he does not believe Jesus died as an atonement for sin? Are you getting the picture? Once you start denying parts of the Word of God, you can then add other religious beliefs and rituals to Christianity, and you can take out parts of it that your really not comfortable with as well. When you believe the Word of God is just a book of stories and not God-breathed, the rest of the Gospel can be picked apart at will. I beg of you, please research him and don't just come to his defense because you think he is a neat guy. Their are many neat guys out there, but I wouldn't follow and defend everything they say without researching everything first. A lot of the research you will find will be Rob Bell's own words from his own books, interviews, and sermons. Not hearsay, but his own words. How can you take that out of context? I didn't take anyone's word for it on this emerging movement, I checked it myself. I read their own words, their own books, etc. The mystical rituals they endorse, the books of hindu authors, new age authors etc. they quote and endorse, etc. is astounding. This should make every Christian leary and eager to pray and warn.
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- Bell Does not deny the atonement of Christ
| Posted On: 04/13/08 07:54:52 PM | | Age 41, OH |
When people say that Rob Bell denies the atonement of Christ, I would ask them to supply their facts. Here's a direct quote from one of Bell's sermons:
Rob Bell - My Deliverance 2/24/08
"For us as Christians, we begin with the fundamental assumption that there is something wrong with the world. And what we find wrong with the world, we find it deep within ourselves. That sin has entered into the human story. Each one us carries around a heart that is deeply bent and warped. Our explanation of that would be sin. Because of that, our world is in bondage to the same darkness same warped spirit of sin. We operate under the assumption that God loves us and has not given up on human beings, but has rescued us through Jesus. That Jesus coming among us -- teaching and then being executed on a cross was God's rescue effort for the human race -- for all of creation. And for us, it is Jesus absorbing, taking the worst that human beings can do to each other, taking all of our sins, dying and then rising again -- conquering the worst that can happen to any of us, which is death. And for us, the heart of being a Christian is that we are sinners and we are saved purely by the Grace of God."
I don't see how you can interpret that Rob Bell is talking about anything but Christ's sacrifice and His atonement for us.
Thanks,
Andy
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 12:16:21 PM |
Age 15, MN |
I completely agree with this article. I am studying Hinduism and Buddhism in History right now. I was amazed at the spiritual significance of the "exercise" yoga. I thought; why is it acceptable to have yoga in American society today? why isnt anyone speaking out against it? I dont think anyone should accept yoga as part of an exercise. it is a religious belief, and whether intended or not, to participate is to agree with the beliefs behind it. I dont believe that it is acceptable or God honoring for Christians especially to participate in exercises associtaed with a false religion.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 09:01:47 AM |
Age 20, MN |
Well, I am not going to get mad. I am not going to yell and I am not going to give non-christians the view that all we bigots do is yell at each other, becuase I hate when we Christians can't be critical with a loving heart. I disagree with almost everything in the article. I have been listening to every one of Rob Bell's sermon's for the past 3 years. I have watched every Nooma video. I have seen the majority of his teachings to youth pastors and the like. I can not see what you see. I have been radically changed by his teaching while still staunchley apposing the emergent church. He catches the very core of what Jesus teaching is about, love. I think we miss that sometimes. That Jesus is all about love. Now I know exactly what people are going to do with this. Well what about, "White Washed Tombs", what about, "brood of vipers", well what about, "he is a fox." True, Jesus had harsh words at times, but why? So they could come to a right relationship with God because they were so far off. He loved them enough that he would tell them the truth. Out of curiosity. What was the context of that excerpt you took? I hope it wasn't out of context.
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- Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 04:24:12 PM | | Age 51, NH |
Again we see the example of just how blind people can be when it comes to Rob Bell. Jesus is God Himself in human flesh. The same God Who had Joshua annhilate Jericho. In Isaiah 37:36 we read: "Then the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morningthere were all the dead bodies!" Do a little research and you will find that "the" Angel of the Lord is Christ Himself in preincarnate form. Bell is preaching a common new evangelical and Emergent fairytale about wishful "love." And as far as did I take the quote out of context, you'd know whether I did or not if you made the time to follow the interior links before you made your comment in ignorance.
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- Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 03:40:45 PM | | Age 39, IN |
Minnesota:
Since you've listened to Rob Bell for three years, maybe you can help me to understand what he meant when he said:
"And the Yoga Masters say this is how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God. Is it’s your breath being consistent. It’s your connection with God regardless of the pose you find yourself in. That’s integrating the divine into the daily."
FYI, here's the link: http://blogs.echurchnetwork.net/Assets/UserBlog/314/052905.mp3
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 09:15:46 PM |
Age 29, MO |
It's amazing how you can have two polar opposites. One teaching all you need is love and the other teaching salvation by works and Lordship. huh...sorry both guys are wrong
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- Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 08:05:55 AM | | Age 51, NH |
I don't teach salvation by works. Repentance is not a work. Sorry, but you're wrong.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:13:04 PM |
Age 39, IN |
"[In Yoga] it’s not how flexible you are, it’s not whether you can do the poses, it’s not how much you can bend yourself, it’s can you keep your breath [breathes in and out] consistent [breathes out] through whatever you are doing."
"And the Yoga Masters say this is how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God. Is it’s your breath being consistent. It’s your connection with God regardless of the pose you find yourself in. That’s integrating the divine into the daily."
The mp3 link can be found on the Team Pyro blog.
As I understand, Yoga originated in the Hindu religion. Every contemporary "Yoga Master" is something other than Christian. Why then would Bell say the Yoga Masters talk about how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God? How would they know?
Or did Bell reveal his ignorance when he suggested that the "Yoga Masters" know the way of Jesus?
Of course, Bell could think that there is not much difference between Christianity, Hinduism and Buddism. Maybe all three are "the way of Jesus."
Perhaps a brother that has shown Rev. Silva some love can
lovingly ask Rob Bell what he was trying to say?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 03:17:19 PM |
Age 17, IN |
Your representation of Rob Bells picture of Jesus as the ultimate Yoga Master seems to me to be quite inaccurate and closed-minded. (Before you tune me out, at least read what I have to say. I had the courtesy to read your article, now consider the reading of this as a return-favor.) Bell is referring to Yoga in its role as exercise (though I realize that you probably believe that this role and its role in eastern religion are homogeneous or indistinguishable). However, the fact that he is not even referring to the religious practice is beside the point. If he was referring to it in its religious context, he would simply be using a demonstration or illustration from another religion. His idea of breathing consistently with Christ is not by any means suggesting that ones breath connects them with God. (This is what your declaration that all of creation would consequently have union with God implies.) If you would open your eyes, it would be obvious that he is simply attempting to show how consistently pursuing Gods best for your life is what matters. It isnt about the legalistic nature of Christians who take on roles as modern Pharisees in making sure that they are not breaking any rules by assigning twice as many rules as are listed in scripture and in the principles of Christs ministry.
People who seek to stir up trouble amongst believers (*ahem*i.e. you) are missing the point. There is a lost and dying world out there who knows how to connect with humans through conversations and life. We as Christians have been forgiven through Christ and are the connection between him and the world. (I am telling you this, because you seem to have forgotten.) Excuse me if Bells example from an eastern faith offended you. Luckily, he doesnt care if he offended you! He wants the millions of people in his audience who have been approached by eastern faiths and trapped in their lies to see that the God after whom they are innately searching can only be reached through the forgiveness and repentance of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
As it seems you have forgotten, Christians are in the business of reaching people. Christians are in the business of connecting with God. Christians are in the business of connecting people with God. God is bigger than Yoga. He is not fooled! If the Gods worshipped by Yoga are false, then why can this form of exercise or slow-motion dancing or thinking not be used for the glory of the one true God? I would love to hear your reply, sir.
Also, dont ever use the number of years you have been studying theology as an argument point. It is entirely distasteful and causes you to sound like a self-absorbed and condescending person. There are persons who have studied the scripture for one tenth as long as you have who have twelve times as much insight as I have seen here. Don't rely on your gifts or education; rely on God's revelation.
Good day!
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- Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 03:12:43 AM | | Age 42, KY |
I am sorry my young friend, but you are wrong. YHVH Himself, warns of turning to traditions of men. Do you think so little of the Lord you, supposedly serve as to believe that His word needs the help of pagan rituals and practices to reach those He has called. All parts of Yoga are related, and you can't seperate the "exercise" from the spiritual aspects of it (though the world wants you to believe you can). And let us clear this little misunderstanding up as well: You, nor I, nor Brother Silva, nor Mr. Bell can 'call' or 'Save' anyone, for Yeshua Himself tells us that only the Father can 'call' or 'draw' a person to the Christ, and only Yeshua the Messiah, can offer salvation to them. Our only jobs as messianic gentiles and/or messianic Jews, is to study and learn His Word and to teach the Word and witness about His great works and miracles, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit takes care of the rest! No where in the scriptures, will you find the Lord telling us to go out and 'Call' or 'Save' souls!!! Hopefully, with a lot more study of His Word, and a whole lot more revolations concerning the Scriptures, you will see the blatant errors in your own reasoning and chastisement of Brother Silva.
God Bless you and enlighten you!
Mark
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- Re: Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 01/15/08 10:25:19 AM | | Age 65, CA |
I really do not understand all the controversy. As Christians, we are called to immerse ourselves in the Word. That means that as individual Christians, we are to bathe ourselves in God's Word. It is through this "bathing" that God can speak to our hearts. We don't need others to tell us what the Word says. We only need to be in tune with the Holy Spirit living within us so that He, and only He, can teach us what He wants us to know. All the rest is simply someone else's opinion of what the Word says to them. If you are a Christian, you have the Spirit of Christ within you, the Holy Spirit of Christ. He is the Teacher. We do not need any other teacher. It wouldn't matter what Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, Pastor Silva, or anyone else was saying if we were truly in tune with the Spirit within us. We really are sheep. We simply want to follow, and not do any of the work on our own. That is how we get drawn away from the true God of the Universe. We do not listen to our inner Spirit who can and will, teach us all things. God the Father is in Heaven. God the Son (Jesus) is in Heaven. All we have is God the Holy Spirit here with us. Jesus said he was leaving this earth, but not forsaking it. He said he was sending the Spirit to do all the things that we require ie., The Comforter, The Teacher, The Healer, The Protector, etc. He is all we have, and He is all we need. We do not know the hearts of men. We therefore, cannot judge their hearts. That is God's job. What is it if someone wants to practice yoga and call it a Christian thing? If that is what it is in the heart of that person, then that is what it is. Whatever it means to the hindu is of no consequence. It is what is in the heart of the one doing it. I practice Tai Chi. It is nothing more to me than an exercise, and a beautiful dance. There have been times when doing it that I have been very close to God. That is what it is to me. Now---judge me for practicing an ancient Chinese "religious" practice.
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- Re: Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/28/06 02:39:11 PM | | Age 21, IL |
"Do you think so little of the Lord you, supposedly serve as to believe that His word needs the help of pagan rituals and practices to reach those He has called."
Jesus often used stories and parables of non spiritual things to explain spiritual things. If you read into the writtings of Paul, several times he talks about pagan rituals.
1 Corinthians 8:4-8
4So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 7But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
The Gospel doesn't NEED the help of pagan religions, but in the same breath, one could say that God doesn't need our help. Is he to weak or incapable that he needs a fallen human race to spread the word for Him? Not at all!
Rob Bell's use of Yoga is to relate spiritual things to something that the common person can relate to. The great commission says "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations", and so far, I havn't found a nation that speaks Christianese. We must use the language of the people. How else can people understand?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 01:58:58 PM |
Age 51, NM |
One tires of hearing Paul's use of the Greek poets in Acts 17 (which has become the prime, and only, argument for "culturally relevant" evangelism).
Paul never condoned the theology of the poets and/or their practices. What he did tell them was that the poets had the right description of the wrong god, i.e. Zeus. Remember Paul began his discourse by saying that he was going to tell them, the Stoics, of the "unknown god" that they had built an altar to. You may also note that of all the evangelistic efforts in the book of Acts, this was the least successful.
My advice to the younger commenters here is to quit regurgitating emergent dogma, and read your Bibles along with a good history of the church.
The main problem with Bell is that he is neo-pelagian in his theology. God "connects" with us. We do not, and cannot connect with God. Bell's usage of yoga as a "sermon illustration" is confusing in its presentation to the more immature believers. It appears as if he is condoning its use, much like the promotion of the labyrinth,contemplative prayer etc.
The baseball analogy does not hold water as no one would construe it as a "religious/spiritual disipline which is what yoga is. The only way to the Father is through the Son, not through other religions. God help the "tolerant ones".
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